>> Dr. Lanham:
Good morning to all, and welcome back to booth library for the continuation of the symposium on Ancient Greece.  

It's been quite the voyage these past 5 weeks and today is the last day of the symposium which is quite exciting for us, because we are here looking at both the arts and the sciences this morning, which is an appropriate closing to this, and then tonight we will have the finale at 6:00 in the North gym of McAfee, and we will have music, which, Corey Francis will be conducting, and we will have dance, and we will have athletic demonstrations and a presentation on the Olympics, so I hope you will join us there. 

 To introduce our speaker, I will ask Dr. Wahby to do so. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Thank you for coming to this session, which comes at the last, and the very last day of the symposium, A Futuristic Look through Ancient Lenses, and we are so grateful that things went very well, and people are so happy with us for what we did, so that many of them say, what will be the next one, what topic are you going to cover? 

So we are considering which other ancient civilizations for next year, so stay tune. 

It is my pleasure today to introduce an artist, a scientist, and research color, Dr. quote, unquote, Corey Francis. 

He was scheduled to give his doctorate, and receive it and give his defense on the 10th of October, and for family reasons, he had to postpone it, but we'll call him Dr. How about that? 

>> Dr. Francis:
Good enough. I'll take that promotion  

>> Dr. Wahby:
Let the music ring, and let it start and never end. 

>> Dr. Francis:
I have a great big voice, because I have to deal with the marching band all the time, so I don't need a microphone, thank you for that, but my name is Corey Francis, and I am finishing up my doctorate degree at University of Southern Mississippi, while I focus on actually ensemble conducting. 

So, I am not necessarily music historian, but I had to spend so much time in music history, and so much time in score of music, that I know a lot about the structures and the foundations and all that stuff, and so what I am going to present to you today, is a discussion on how the culture of ancient Greek, whether it was drama, architecture and these ideas of the ancient Greeks influenced the music that you know, from Bach, from the time of Bach, from the time of Mozart, and of these composers, and during those time periods, because it is very heavily influential into what these composers did. 

Now, I am a band director, so most of the stuff I deal with is band, but I do have a great experience in orchestra as well, so we are going to dive into orchestral scores, and opera scores today, and talk about how this ancient Greek culture influenced music. 

Now before we get started, we need to talk about the difference in these ages. Ancient Greek music was actually evidenced around, well, that's great grammar, the very first sentence, huh?  

Ancient Greek music is for evidenced, that first evidenced, that should be around 800 BC and was part of daily culture. 

They would use it for dramas, they would use it for civil events, they would use it for church, whatever was going on, they would have some sort of musical styles going along with it, whether it was a wind instrument, kind of like a flute, called an aulos, or stringed instruments, lyres, things like that. 

Or greatly a part of their culture. Fast forward 2400 years, you get to the Baroque era, where music is performed mostly in church and in court functions, but many composers during this time were composing musicians were actually employees of the church or the nobility. 

Classical era changes things up. 

After Bach dies in 1750, we get the start of the classical era, and this is where musicians started to be more independent, they started to do things on their own, and work with patrons, as opposed to necessarily a church or a certain noble person, and then we also had the otherwise amateur musicians as noted during this era of music.  

So we are talking a span of 2400 years between ancient Greek music being evident, Baroque era beginning, and the classical era another 150 years later. 

So over 2500 years of history, but the influences are great.  

During the Baroque era you have a change in politics in arts, and sciences, we are going from thinking the world is flat to the world is round, we are talking about the earth going around the sun, not the sun going around the earth, and lots of religious wars, and lots of things are going on during this time. 

Music making being centered around the home, the church, and the universities, specifically the church. 

Bach, himself, worked for the Lutheran church for almost his entire career, and had over 600 church cantatas that he wrote specifically for the Lutheran church.  

The biggest part of the Baroque spirit that is taken from the Greek drama in particular, is this idea of the doctrine of affections. 

This is an idea that was labeled to it after the Baroque era, but was definitely a something that was in effect during the time. 

During Greek drama, there was this Greek idea of trying to stir the passions, trying to change the emotions of people by, or influence them whether it be political, whether it be something music has given them the idea of love, the idea of hate, sorrow, whatever was going on, they wanted to grab the audience, and help them stir their emotions up, and that is where we get this idea of the doctrine of affections, for the Baroque era. 

During this time, the composers would do things within their music to stir up the fluids within the body, whether it was blood, whether it was bile, whatever it was, there was about 6 different emotions they would try to go through.  

Love and hate, joy and sorrow, or melancholy, wander and desire. 

They would have this idea of trying to present one of these emotions, or affections during a movement of a work. 

So when we get to the Baroque era, we start opera, as we are going to get into an opera here in just a minute, but we start to see multiple movement works, and each movement has a different effect. 

One of the ones we are going to deal with today, is mostly the hate and the sorrow side of things, but the idea of using, in ancient Greek they use rhetorical devices, whether it was a literation or other rhetorical devices to kind of persuade people, here we are going to get the repetition of music, we are going to get what is called a sigh motive, we are going to get a ground base, or ostinatos, things like this, or a word painting, any Baroque music, which is derived specifically from the ancient Greeks. 

Monody is the style of music that really became influential during the Greek, or during the Baroque era and this comes specifically from the ancient Greeks where you have soul singer reciting something with an accompanial instrument, whether it is a lyre, a harpsichord, or some other instrument, but you have a solo person singing, reciting something with a musical background. 

In Home's Odyssey, or the other epic poems during this time, you see a lot of that where someone is holding a lyre, and speaking or there is some sort of music going on, while someone is reciting something. 

This is directly; this idea of Monody, the solo song with instrumental accompaniment comes from the baroque era, and is derived from the Greeks. 

The Florentine Camerata was the treatise that brought this together. 

Or the group of people that created the treatise that brought this together. Most of these were nobility, Galileo, Caccini, and Paderi. 

Caccini was actually the composer, the only composer on the Florentine Camerata, which kind of helped everything kind of develop within the baroque era. 

There was a very important treatise and convention on what was going to happen in the 1600's musically. 

We just got out of the resonance era where things were layered on top of each other, you can't understand things, these guys looked back to the ancient Greeks and particular their drama and their soul of singing. 

We are going to listen to a couple of examples here, coming from Didos, well, actually it's Henry Purcell's opera Dido and Annias, and we'll do Act 3. 

The first example we are going to hear is Dido's lament, where actually we are going to hear the recessive T by Hannibal Linda, and in this you are going to see, what's known as, what some of the things that they use as rhetorical devices. 

One thing they try to, not rhetorical devices, but how to effect the emotions. 

One idea is this idea of chromaticism. 

If you look here at this piece of music, you see what we call the key signature and it says that we have two flats, within our key, we lower it two notes, a half step, if you don't know a lot about music it's simply just a symbol saying whatever note is on this line, it's going to be played flat, or played down a little bit. Well, this symbol here, makes it, raises it up a half, which is going to cause a lot of tension within the music. 

This is going to help to bring about the darkness, the more tense emotions, throughout the piece. 

We also have here this little fall, which you see here and here as well, and we are going to call this the sign motive, and it's just this kind of little "sigh" you know, I am in such sorrow that I am just kind of oh woe is me. 

And you are going to hear a lot of that throughout this piece. 

This is [unclear dialogue] it is a solo singer with accompaniment.  

Now the accompaniment does do much, there's not a lot of rhythmic drive, it's just kind of solo and reciting, and strumming along on various times. 

Let’s give a little bit of a listen to this. 

Listen particularly for this sigh motive that you are going to hear a couple of measures in. [music plays] a little bit of a awww [music plays] oh, that's not what I wanted to do.  

Where did it go? 

There, sorry bout that. [Music plays] but obviously you hear that little sigh motive, that gives it a little bit of darkness, a little bit of tension to the music.  [Music plays]

Here the accompanist is not very active at all, so it's just kind of sullen reciting and strumming along.  [Music plays]  

Ok. So those are very obvious devices that they'll use to increase the tension and kind of stir the passions up a little bit, and another one, which comes in the song directly after this [unclear dialogue] is when I am laid in earth, which is an aria, and an aria is pretty much a solo song with a more active accompaniment, you are going to hear more rhythmic drive, you are going to hear more things within the accompanimental figures. 

And here we are going to have this idea of rhetorical devices, a literation, or what we are going to call the ostinato, this passage of music that is being repeated here, and it goes throughout the entire piece. I think it goes about five or six times throughout the aria; you are going to hear this little phrase of music being repeated.  

So it's kind of a literation, kind of a repetition of syllable, kind of just an idea of repeating in general.  

Another thing with this though is word painting, which is very crucial.  

When I am laid in earth, means when you are buried, right? 

Well, when you have the idea you are talking about someone about when I am buried in the earth, you are going to sing about it, are you going to sing something that goes from a lower note to a higher note? 

Probably not. 

Because you want to give the image of being laid down. 

So it goes lower, and lower`, and lower, to get the idea that you are going six feet under. 

Ok? So this is another idea taken from the Greeks, this word painting, tried to paint the picture with the words. 

And here we are doing it with the pitch. 

The idea of the music mirroring what is being sung is crucial during the Baroque era. 

So you will hear this a few times, you hear that it is being, it is descending all the way through, giving you the idea of the word painting being laid down into the ground. [Music plays] and it repeats, word painting here as well.  [Music plays] 

So you can hear that Ostinato going through, alliteration, or repetition of the phrase, again, the sigh motive, also kind of word painting being laid, going from a higher pitch, to a lower pitch, same thing here.  

More word painting. 

So these ideas were very, very big within the operas, within the music period of the Baroque era, And this is just a very, very, very small example, but you can go through works of Monoverde, works of Bach, and see these type of things within there.  

What's a little bit more obvious to us thought, well, there's another style of music I forgot to talk about, I need to talk about real quick that important to the Baroque era, and that's the idea of the Courtly dances, these suites.

If you went to a party at the Nobility's house during the time of the Baroque era you are going to hear this style of music played all the way through. 

This is called the Baroque Suite, the dance suite, and usually it consists of five movements, the allemande, the Courante, Sarabonde, some sort of optional dance, whether its' minuet, gabotte, bourre, whatever, and then close up with a gigue. 

Each one of these had some sort of emotion attached to it; some sort of mood that the composer would try to bring about throughout the work. 

In the Allemande, they wanted some sort of contentment, a little more upbeat, the Courante, hopefully, or bond ambition, each of these had a time signature, a key signature, something musically that was going to be associated with this. 

Most of these were either in two beats a measure, or three beats a measure, and the really affects the whole mood. 

The Courante being a three, in three, the Sarabande being in two, the Gigue being in six, sometimes. 

But each one of these has an emotion tied to it. 

And what the composer would do was try to mimic that within the work. 

The most common of the optional dance, was the minuet. 

You hear that a lot, it actually became part of the classical era as well, this idea of the minuet a cheerful movement within the middle of a work. 

So, not only was it opera, but this is more of an instrumental ensemble that would play at dance parties. 

Background music for courtly events, whether it's a birthday party of a princess, or just having fun on the fourth of July, if they celebrated, which I know they probably didn't but, so, but that's the idea of those.  

The classical era brings us the use of architecture, the idea of order, objectivity, you know, proportion. 

Over here we have the Parthenon in Athens. 

If you look at the Parthenon, you notice the structure of the Parthenon, it's very ordered. 

Very balanced. 

Well how do you get that? 

Well, let’s see. 

If you look at the columns at the front, you have what, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, columns that fills the front, if you go left or right. 

If you go from front to back, if I have, if I still remember this, I believe there are sixteen, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, hard to see, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen. 

If I did my counting right. that's pretty ordered, isn't it? 

By fours, or by eights, eight in the front, sixteen in the back. 

That's pretty balanced. 

Not necessarily completely symmetrically, but if you doubled it up, it would be fine. So, there's a lot of order, there's a lot of proportion within this music. And that was a big thing that the classical composers of Heiden Mozzart, and Beethoven took from the ancient Greek Cultures. 

During this time we are talking 1750 to about 1820, about that, it's still not defined within music history exactly where this era ends. 

But you have the American revolution happening, the French revolution happening, more advances in sciences, the industrial revolution, the age of reason, so there seems to be more of this idea of science and kind of ordering and structuring things, and there being this, going through all of culture and the music world was just part of it. 

We go from the baroque era which was more centered around Germany. Leipzig, Bond, and Berlin were Back spent a lot of his career to Vienna, Austria, Austria becomes a very important player in the music history. 

We have the first Viennese school of composers, all of these composers were studied in Vienna, spent a lot of time, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, and Franz Schubert. So a very centralized area. 

We are talking from Greece to Vienna, here. 

This is where the central idea of the classical era comes about. In the classical era, elements of classical style, we have singable lyrics melodies, something that is very memorable. 

Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star, Classical era, Ode to Joy, classical era, things that you know those songs, have a background here. 

Rhythms and meters are very regular. 

So you are going to have this idea of order within meter and structure. 

Simple textures, a lot of different composers, some good examples of their pieces right here. 



Again, if you look at, if you saw the Parthenon a few minutes ago, you have the similar columns structure up in the very front, again, very proportionate, six in the front. Very balanced.  

Well, what this created was the idea of classical forms. 

How to structure the music. 

There wasn't a lot of structure done in the Baroque era, there was some things, there was some structure, but really the big thing about the classical era was it's idea of balance, its idea of structure. 

The idea of the theme came about where this musical idea is transferred throughout the piece of music, it becomes a central idea within the piece of music. 

It's not through compose, like you see now, where you  actually saw in the baroque era, it's, you have this theme, it's going to come back, you are going to hear it quite a bit. 

This is [unclear dialogue] music from Mozart, you should be familiar with this piece, at least I hope you are, [music playing] two bars, two more bars, very balanced, right?  

He had this idea kind of going back and forth, and a nice closing to that. 

This brings about, this piece of music actually we call in the sonata, Allegro Forum, or just plain old Sonata Form. Ok. 

The idea of balance you can see here. 

You have an exposition, you have development, and you have recapitulations. 

You see the labels above those letters, music structure we usually tend to go by the letter A, B, C, or whatever, so, where we see the A, it means that idea is being repeated. 

Well, here, you've got an A section, all the contents of that A section, sometimes it's repeated, sometimes not all the time, the B Sections, something different, the development section, and then you have the recompitulation in which is the same idea as the A section. 

Now, if you look at this, you see this has kind of got a little line here, and there's nothing over there, what's going to happen is this. 

We'll take the original theme, we are going to state it, they are going to have some sort of transition, something that is going to take us to a different area, a different key, and we are going to have another theme. 

But still, it's probably going to be very similar to what you've heard before, and the idea is two bars plus two bars, creating a theme, and going through and expanding on it a little bit.  

And we are going to bring it to a nice close, a nice little package, bring it all up; it could be a nice little [sighs] a settling moment before we get to the development section. 

The development section in Sonata form means anything can go. 

Anything can happen, you can do anything you want to, they are going to in this piece, they are going to take this theme here, right here, and throw it through a whole bunch of different keys. Just that small fragment of those first two bars that we saw a minute ago. 

It's going to take this phrase, right here, and throw it around a whole bunch of different key areas, and really kind of build tension that way.   

You can go to any key and go anywhere it wants to, as long as when we get back here, theme one, theme one stayed at the same level, the same key, if it's in the key of E flat, then it's going to be E flat over here, if it's in the key of B flat, B flat over here, if it's in the key of F sharp, same thing.  

We get back to recopilulation, we state everything that we saw over here, except there's no change of keys. 

Theme two winds up being in the same key, as theme one, and closes off into a nice little package. Let’s listen to this real quick, it only takes a couple moments, but you can hear everything that is going on.  [music plays] Theme one.  

Little fragments of it. 

Now, we are getting to the bridge. 

It's gonig to take us to a different key.  

Tension is building. 

We still have that idea of every two bars or every four bars, there's this idea of order and structure.  

Theme two. Something completely different. 

But still a two bar. 

Repeat it.  

Very balanced, right? 

Very structured.  

Closing it up a little bit.  

And it's going to repeat. Ok? 

We'll miss the repeat and we'll go right to the development section.  

Oh No! Boo hiss. 

That's not what I wanted you to do.  

Opening fragment. 

Now we are taking theme two fragment. 

Different key, right? 

So still using the structures, the fundamental structures of this theme, and doing different things with it. 

And it goes on for a few moments, oh that's not what I wanted.  

But we go back to the beginning with it. 

 Exact same music from before, right? 

Again, order, structure.  

But this time, it doesn't change keys.  

We get to the last theme, same music as before, but now it is a different key, it's in the original key. 

They always wanted to close things up in whatever the original key was.  

They didn't want to have any of this extra tension built, they wanted it to be nice and ordered and structured and simple. 

So it closes up in the original key. 

So, that's just one of the forms, and actually this form was probably used in 90% of the sonatas and in like if it was a solo piece, a solo sonata, or a symphony, or any other style of music, in that time period, you are going to hear this structure. Concertos, chamber music, this is a very important form.  

Let's move on. [Music ends]  

There are other forms that became very, very important during this time.  

The sonata form, the sonata allegro form, was used mostly in the first movement of a symphony. 

Or a chamber work, or whatever. 

The other movements could be different things. 

A Ternary form where you have an A-B-A, these didn't have to necessarily line up and be exact, and this didn't have to use the themes from the other sections. 

The sonata form we saw that the development section used theme one, parts of theme one, and theme two and threw it around. 

The difference between the Ternary form and the sonata form, is that this can be it's own theme and not be a true development section.  

It could use, it doesn't have to use the music from other parts of the piece.

You saw that in the development section of the sonata form it did.  You can use the shortened sonata form, where there's a little bit more abbreviated, without repeats, maybe even omit the second theme and the recompitulation.

We'll talk about the theme and variations in just a second. 

A rondo form, which is simply A B A C A B A, it is a repetition of each little pattern, each little section.  

The theme and variations, you can see is also very ordered and structured.  

You are going to come up with a theme and it's going to be a simple theme for A theme and then it's repeated, and then another theme for B theme. 

So, Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star, for some reason if you want to go off that one.  

Throw that in there for your A theme, well, what would happen is the next section in the first, you state the theme in the first, obviously, and then that variation, you would do something different, you would change the melody up a little bit, instead of making it simple quarter notes, maybe you'd make it 8th notes, or you'd do something else rhythmically.  

Or you'd do something melodically with it. You change the harmony, instead of it being in major, maybe it's in minor this time around, so you do something the harmonic variation. 

Rhythmic variation, you change the rhythmic or drive of the piece. 

You can do lots of other things with the dynamics, textures maybe some one voice, maybe it's in five voices the next time , you can do a lot of things, but notice it's always A and B, A and B, A and B, etc., all the way through.  

So, again the idea of order, the idea of structure plays an important part in the formal structures.  

Then we have what we saw, the minuet earlier, within the Baroque era, now becomes a movement within the classical era. 

And they would take that little dance, and put it here. 

And this is very similar to what you would see with the minuet, in the Baroque era, it would be a little bit of a theme, and then it repeat, and then a different theme, and it repeats, and it would be a three-fours, something very light and easy to dance to. 

But then, they would take, what the classical era did, was take that minuet put a different dance in the middle of it, and repeat it again.  

This time without each section repeating on it's own. 

If you haven't noticed I should say that just says before, this little symbol here n music means repeat that whole section. 

So, I should have said that a little earlier.  

But you again, the idea of structure and balance. 

Maybe this is sixteen bars long; this is probably 16 bars long. 

This could be eight, that could be eight, that could be thirty-two, whatever, and then you have the others, other structure going on later, you have the repetition of the A and B section again. 

So, again, structure, order, balance, the forms that came from the Greek Classical Era were derived from that order and balance of the architecture from the Parthenon and other structures during ancient Greece. 

So, you know, over that last, to kind of conclude things up, over the last probably 15 years, there's probably been more written about ancient Greek music than there was probably the fifty years before that.  

There’s more texts coming out, still not a lot is known, we know about their, we know that they had instruments, we don't know necessarily what all the instruments were, we don't necessarily know how they were notated, or played, we know they had instruments, when they used instruments, why they used instruments, as a part of everyday life. 

Know they had modes, they are simple, there are ideas of rhythm and melody, which have developed over time. 

The scales and keys that you hear now, were actually taken from ancient Greek, and then to the church modes of Aurean chant, and developed over time. 

As a matter of fact, there's one called the Dorean Mode, which is a scale that is a different type of scale that we use now, mainly in Jazz playing.  

So, you'll hear a lot of that. 

So we use the scales and mode, which they had back then, and they also had the start of our music theory. 

Many of the terms that we use now, are derived from that. 

Music itself is derived from ancient Greek.  

Symphony, orchestra, organ, baritone, all of these words are actually derived from Ancient Greek.  

The Greek idea of drama, and the idea of stirring the passions, are really key things during the Baroque era and we saw that with the use of rhetorical devices, where there was alliteration, or repetition, things like that, also, with the sigh motive, trying to or other little motives to show the emotion of the piece, and kind of stir the emotions of the listener. 

And then the balance and the order of the Greek Architecture was a major influence on the classical era where they had actual formal structures come about that were very balanced and very ordered all the way throughout. 

So, that kind of concludes what I have, do you all have anything for me, like questions or anything like that, or?

[applause] 

All right. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
I am sure you will agree with me that was a treat. 

And a nice way of getting to the last day of the symposium. 

Music and architecture. 

If you have any questions, prepare them, because I have a couple and I'll start, because I have the mic. 

I am a structure engineer, myself, and into music as well. 

So, I see some terminology that is kind of overlapping, like structure, form, and construction. 

Even if you look into a sheet of music, and you look to Baroque or classical you'll find certain structure in it, I mean, like an architecture in it.  

How would you reason this? 

>> Dr. Francis:
I think without form, without the structure of music in it, it's hard to really to find what music would be now, you hear structure in music right now, if you listen, turn the pop radio, you know, there is some sort of structure going on.  

It's the music that is almost formless was the Gregorian chant. 

There was still some sort of structure to it, but not as much as we see now.  

And we are using the same terminology, because it is the same ideas, we want to have some sort of foundation and the lay the music upon, in order for it to be constructed and for it to flow in a way that we can understand. 

And I think our brains kind of interpret that formal structure very easily. 

We hear a chorus and verse in pop music, and we see the forms here with the classical era, it's easy for us to hear that structure, as it is easy to see the structure of the architecture and how it's balanced and how it's worded.  

So, 

>> Dr. Wahby:
All right, any other questions?  

If you don't have, I have another question.  

In the Baroque time, it was kind of a culture, period, era, when you have the hair style, dress, the architecture in the buildings, and in the music, and in the writings style. 

The words, and so forth, and contrast this to the time when the architectural engineers started to make straight lines and go out away from curvy and more elaborate on things just say the word give me the bottom line, culture of things, that actually kind of happened around the transition from the baroque to the classical era. 

The Baroque era was really known musically for having, we would see pieces of music from Corelli, Violin, suites that he had composed, where it would be like just simple notes, a whole note, a couple half notes, it's very, if you look at it, it's like a 6th grader could play this.  But you listen to them play it, and they do all this ornamentation, all this decoration upon the music. 

Well, it got to the point where it was so difficult for the amateur musicians to perform those things, and composers were starting to get music published, because you have the printing press coming, I think it is 1501 when the printing press came about, but it was later than that, almost 1600 when we had a printing press for music dedicated to it. 

So, we started to see more publications of music so composers would make money off of it, they had it simple, they had to write it all out and simplify it a little bit, take away some of that decoration, take away some of that ornamentation. 

So that the amateur musicians would go out and buy the music.  

So, you saw a lot of that with, it became hard to publish the ornamented works, the ornamented books, it became simpler to publish and more expedient to publish the things that weren't quite as decorated. 

So I think along with that, technology coming through making it simpler and trying to mass produce things, you saw the elimination of the ornaments, the ornamentation and things like that.  

So, the decoration.  

Other questions, yes? 

>> Dr. Lanham:
I don't know if there's a question, but I have a comment. 

The, I enjoyed this very much, and I wanted to point out, at least to the audience, that you just had a one-years' course in formative analysis, and because the musicians, but the true formative analysis would have spread that lecture out over a year's time, and in order to look at so many of the different forms and this, but I love the way you've tied this to the Greek architecture and I thought you were going to go and I read the blurb here on my arrival I was thinking you would go from a very simple music and compare that to the Ionic column, or go onto the Doric, and a little bit of interplay, and then we would get to Baroque, and through the Corinthian architectural modes and those types of thing. But one doesn't have to, because you have described it and diagramed it for us very well there. 

I want to lean this, some of your comments back to one of the evening sessions last week, when Dr. Marquart was looking at the Greek Architecture and showing that in the well, as you can see, as we approach the Acropolis here and these building are [unclear dialogue] but there was before you reach the top of the mountain, there was a place where architecturally they took you into a tunnel, clearly with measured columns, and everything symmetrically etc., but they took you into a darker place, so that we could focus on the exuberance on what was at the top of the mountain. 

And in color and all these types of things, but that's very similar to what we are showing here in terms of let's manipulate the listener or the observer by taking them somewhere that that they didn't know that you on purpose were taking them there, and then all of a sudden it's all the more rich when you get to the other side, and some of the movements that you were in the courtly dances and all those types of things, were to give the ear a rest, and to give the eye, you know, or to give your body a rest, if you are dancing through all these things, you know, some are slower, you move less, and then others are faster, so, I just, enjoyed this very much. 

Thank you.

>> Dr. Francis:
Thank you. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Any other questions? 

We have a physician and a historian and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I am sure you have been taking notes, and maybe you have some questions, so I give you this chance if you have something. If you don't have now, I have questions, so prepare your questions. 

Why do we connect this music, forms and so forth, to the Greeks? 

Why not to the ancient Egypt? 

Why not to Cathedrals in Europe? 

Why not to Incas or whatever? 

>> Dr. Francis:
The easiest answer for that would be that's what they said.  

That's what they were looking to. 

That what when we talked to the historians, or you talked to the composers if you had like an interview of some of the stuff you said, that's where they were being drawn to. Yeah, that's what they were going to. 

They, you know, there was some writings of Egypt there were some writings of other things, but the crucial part was they liked the structural balance every column was the same, every angle was the same, there was this idea of order in everything. 

And though you didn't see that quite as much in the cathedrals like Notre Dame, there's a lot of, the trusses are a little bit more angular than some other parts are, so it's isn't as necessarily as balanced as fully ordered as the structures you would see with the ancient Greeks. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
So these musicians spoke or wrote about this, not that we think that they did this? 

>> Dr. Francis:
Yeah, the composers and music historians of that time were going back to that. 

>> Dr. Wahby:
Excellent.  Yes.  

Lots of questions, but not now.  

Excellent.  

Well, there's something here for Francis? 

>> Dr. Lanham:
Yes, we want to thank Dr. Francis for giving us our lesson this morning, and we would give him a commemorative certificate for your portfolio.  

>> Dr. Francis:
Thank you very much.  Appreciate it.